Under the Influence: Mike Rodriguez Speaks

Photo courtesy of the artist.

by Stephanie Jones

Emerging from lockdown, Mike Rodriguez has enjoyed a number of performance dates, live and in person. The thoughtful bandleader’s reputation as a first-call trumpet player affords him opportunities to play with a wide range of artists, from Caroline Davis to Kenny Barron to Maria Schneider to most recently, his childhood hero Issac Delgado. 

But in the midst of all this sideman work, Rodriguez has found time to refine a deeply personal, melodic expression that honors the hours he’s spent with such diverse band leaders. His summer 2021 release Pathways (RodBros Music) pays tender homage to many of these artists, and documents a period of transition in his own expression. 

The Jazz Gallery: There’s such a feeling of intimacy with this recording, which seems directly related to the personnel. For how long have you been playing with this quartet? 

Mike Rodriguez: I started playing with them three-going-on-four years ago. The band that I had before that was great, too. I thought maybe this music needed a different direction, so I switched up the personnel. I love how all these musicians play, so I assembled them and we started playing some gigs, mainly at Smalls, some at the Standard, Dizzy’s Club—just around town. We’d workshop the material. 

TJG: You’ve had the opportunity to play with Obed [Calvaire] in the Jazz at Lincoln Center Orchestra now, too. 

MR: Yeah, I’ve had the opportunity to sub with [JLCO] for the past 20 years. They’ve been really kind and generous with me — I love all those guys. And Obed just recently joined them. 

TJG: He has such a particular expression — it must be nice hearing and playing with him in both those contexts. 

MR: For me, he has the whole gamut. He’s a student of the music. He’s constantly learning and his playing is so versatile. It’s amazing because we went to high school together; he just had a pile of talent when I first met him. And now, he’s one of the most in-demand drummers out there. 

TJG: Even though the two of you have unique expressions, there’s a quality you share. He has sort of established himself as a lifelong student, and you have a similar perspective for yourself and your work. You embrace opportunities to play with so many different people in so many different contexts. Just last week, you were at Birdland. 

MR: Oh yeah, we finished last night! I was with Issac Delgado. 

TJG: Were people dancing? 

MR: Oh yeah. You can’t help but move. It was powerful. When I was 12 or 13, I first learned of Issac Delgado and I became an instant fan. Both my brother and I were fans of his throughout the 90s into the 2000s. 

TJG: When did you start playing with him? Was it this week? 

MR: Monday [laughs]. I was kinda starstruck. He was walking towards me and I was like, “Hey, how you doing?” And he’s like, “Hey, I know who you are,” and I’m thinking, Oh wow, this is incredible. It was a huge honor for me. 

TJG: Speaking of those moments, I’m sure you’ve told this story many times, but for our readers who may not know it, would you mind sharing the story of how you booked the Charlie Haden gig? It’s such a sweet and also kind of an inspiring story. 

MR: Not at all. I’m forever indebted to Charlie—and his wife Ruth who just passed a few months ago, an equally beautiful person. Charlie put me on the musical map. I was 23 years old when he reached out to me. A few years before, I started playing with Gonzalo Rubalcaba—he recommended me to Charlie who was looking for a trumpet player to do a followup to the Nocturne record, playing music from a Mexican composer José Marroquín. He wanted trumpet, but not like Mariachi style. He loves Chet Baker and that kind of flavor, so Gonzalo thought I’d be someone Charlie could check out. 

Charlie called me out of the blue. I had one of those Sprint flip phones at the time, the grey one. I see this “Unknown” number, and I usually don’t pick those up but I decided to answer— while I was driving, which is bad—and this voice was like, “Hey man, is this Mike Rodriguez?”

… “Yeah!” …

“It’s Charlie Haden.”

I couldn’t believe it. I couldn’t process it quickly enough, like, “Oh… oh…” My first thought was, Why is he calling me? So I pulled over and he told me Gonzalo had recommended me. We talked about the project, but he’s never heard me play, so could I send him something. At the time, my brother and I had just released our first record “Introducing the Rodriguez Brothers.” He was like, “Perfect, send me that.” So I sent it. 

Three months had gone by and I hadn’t heard anything. I figured, Okay, that’s cool. I guess he didn’t dig it. But I was content with the fact that he had called me, and I got to speak with him. At the time, we had landlines. Remember those [laughs]? My brother and I were living together up in Inwood area, above Washington Heights, and we had a landline. And lo and behold, my brother calls me all excited, “Man, Charlie just called you, man. You gotta give him a call.”

So I called him back, and Charlie [laughs]: “Hey man, loved the record, so here’s the recording date. And also, what are you doing next summer? I’m thinking of putting the Liberation Band back together.” It just fell on me. The rest is history. I was playing with him up until he passed away. I was 23-24, and pretty much every birthday after that I spent with Charlie. 

TJG: He’s part of this collection of creative and I’m guessing personal influences who have inspired the music on Pathways. We have also now lost Chick. My condolences to you. 

MR: Thank you. That hit hard, too. 

TJG: I did want to talk about these artists—Kenny Barron, and Gonzalo as well—we associate these influences of yours with such imaginative treatment of melody. And I imagine many of them—Maria Schneider, too—have had an influence on your concept of orchestration and arranging, particularly for smaller ensembles that you lead. What specifically are you dealing with conceptually on Pathways as it relates to your associations with these artists over the years? 

MR: The impetus was the actual tune “Pathways,” the title track, commissioned by the MoMA back in 2017. I started with that tune kind of paying tribute to my experience as a side person with these artists. And I wanted to record it, but I needed to write some other tunes. I started thinking about those experiences, individually. Thinking about my time with Charlie—we played that Bill Frisell tune that we ended up putting on the record called “Throughout.”

TJG: That one got me in the gut. 

MR: Oof, I tell you that tune, every time we played it with Charlie, I felt the same way. So I wanted to include that tune, to think of Charlie and honor his involvement in my life. While I was thinking about what else to write, having these melodies floating in my head, I started thinking about working with Kenny Barron. For example, “In Due Time,” I was thinking about my experience playing with him—how, harmonically, his music would go to different places, how he would resolve cadences and phrases—that was fueling the composition. So I treated that one as an homage to Kenny.

“Just in Case,” I had Gonzalo and that project in mind when I was writing it—the quintet that he had put together in 2007 I believe, with Marcus Gilmore and Matt Brewer. Yosvany Terry was in the front line with me. So I was thinking about that sound, how Gonzalo would approach music.

Maria Schneider, I’ve been fortunate enough to have been playing with her band since 2012. Her melodies, they pull on your heart strings. I had thought about her, also Chick Corea on this piece entitled “Crossroads.” I remember right before going on tour with Chick in 2019, I thought, Let me just get into seeing him live. So I started watching some clips of him, and I caught his trio playing live in Spain. And he was playing a tune, and I just went to the piano and [“Crossroads”] came out. The vibe of that tune, I wanted to write something in 3, started thinking about Chick, and some melodies from Maria Schneider as well all kind of fused into that tune. I was thinking about these folks and their music, what it means to me, how I process their melodies. 

TJG: In addition to these influential associations you have had as a collaborator, you’ve been leading—and co-leading with Robert—your own projects for a number of years. You’re now in your 40s, which seems to have that feeling of being a transitional time, particularly for artists. Do you feel you’re coming into a new understanding of your artistry, maybe entering a different kind of relationship with your playing and composing? 

MR: It’s funny that you say that. I kinda do. Not that I feel old—I really don’t feel old. But, just reflecting on the couple decades that have gone by, I feel like I’m trying to play what my life is right now. I’m reflecting on what has happened and just trying t channel all those feelings when I’m playing. I’m still working at it. But I definitely feel like I have a deeper perspective on how to approach music and play the horn, as well. It’s unforgiving, the trumpet. Every day, it’s like starting from scratch [laughs]. 

TJG: It’s such a physically demanding instrument. Do you feel you’ve gone through phases of your relationship with your horn almost in the way a longterm romantic couple goes through relationship phases? 

MR: Yes. The simple answer is yes [laughs]. I’m with the instrument every day, and have been since I was 11 years old. So you establish that, not only on a physical level but on a spiritual level as well, just being with this instrument every day for hours on end, just trying to understand how it works—to this day. This whole week, I’ve been playing two sets every day, hitting hard, playing that hardcore Cuban music, playing parts, taking solos and whatnot. My chops were beat up every night. I’d come home like, “Lord, hope I’m cool for tomorrow.” So last night, Sunday, I said, “Okay I’m gonna rest. I’m not even gonna open my trumpet case.” Guess what I did [laughs]. I opened up the horn and just played a little bit to make sure my chops were cool. It’s like that. I can’t put it down. Charlie Haden used to say, whenever he had his bass in his hand, he would feel totally free. As soon as he put it down, he was in trouble [laughs]. I definitely understand that now. 

TJG: Can you talk about what you and Rob have been doing with RodBros Music? Why was it important for you to create your own label, and do you have current plans for the future of the label? 

MR: When my brother and I released our first record back in 2003, we created a label back then, and I’ve kinda been co-leading it. He’s been in charge of most of the books on the business side of it. We did it to basically have a handle on our music, our brand. “Introducing The Rodriguez Brothers” and also “Mood Swing” we did under the RodBros label. And then for the third one “Conversations,” we decided to try the Savant label through HighNote, and then the last one that we did called Impromptu was under the CrissCross label. But we’ve come back to RodBros. I feel like maybe Blue Note and Concord, they go in a certain direction. So we kinda had to stick to our guns and just keep hacking away at it. So I decided to go back to the RodBros label for this record and grassroot it, if you will. 

TJG: Leaving and then coming back to the label, you must feel strongly that this is the move. You must be happy with the label even though I imagine it’s a tremendous amount of work. 

MR: It is a tremendous amount of work. But yeah, I’ll reap the benefits in the long run. For us, it’s always been the dream to have a band together and be in business together as siblings. And it seems to be working out. It’s tough, don’t get me wrong. We’ve had moments where we’ve been like, “Man, why do we bother with this?” Everybody has those moments. We’re brainstorming about the next Rod Bros record and hopefully we’ll be able to put it our on our label. 

TJG: You work a lot—I’m gonna jump back for a second. You play in so many big band and large ensemble contexts. I’m curious to know in what specific ways section playing has had an influence on your composing and arranging. 

MR: That’s a great question that doesn’t get discussed much in the schools, from my experience. When I first started on the scene, the bulk of my gigs were playing with the big band—reading sessions, rehearsals and whatnot. So you gotta learn how to play in a section or else the lead player’s gonna tell the leader, “This guy doesn’t know how to cut out, doesn’t play in tune, please call someone else.”

Inside the trumpet world, there’s a little hierarchy there. We’re all there to support the lead player. So I quickly had to get my stuff together and learn how to play with these great lead players. I had opportunities to play with many of the greats, Tony Kadleck in Maria Schneider’s band, Jon Faddis a few times and he’s really particular, Tanya Darby—great lead player—so many great leaders: Frank Green, Bob Millikan and the late Lew Soloff. Some voice what they like to have underneath them and some leave it up to you to figure out. Learning that craft is a whole other thing. It’s a monster. 

Has that influenced my composition and arranging? Definitely. Learning what sounds good, what works. Being in a section and checking out how the composer voiced out the trumpets, what the third trumpet is doing, how the lead is being supported — all those little details. I still take note. I do a little bit of big band writing on my own, just to challenge myself. That’s always a work in progress. 

TJG: You have a great band for this upcoming Gallery performance. 

MR: I’m looking forward to it. 

TJG: Will you be playing mostly music from Pathways? 

MR: Pretty much, maybe one tune from the previous record just to mix it up. We’re gonna get together Wednesday and go through it, get a vibe going. 

TJG: What has you most excited about this performance? 

MR: Getting a chance to play for live audiences. Not that I did, but I will never ever take that for granted. Because of that crazy year, everything just gets heightened: “Oh my god, I can’t wait to play in front of people again!” So I’m looking forward to playing with these musicians and this music again. It’s been a while. I’m looking forward to seeing what happens. I can’t wait to go play. 

Mike Rodriguez plays The Jazz Gallery on Friday, October 29, 2021. The group features Mr. Rodriguez on trumpet and flugelhorn, John Ellis on tenor saxophone, Gary Versace on piano, Jorge Roeder on bass and Jimmy Macbride on drums. Sets are at 7:30 and 9:30 P.M. EDT, $25 general admission ($10 for members), $35 limited cabaret seating ($20 for members). Purchase tickets here.