by Kevin Laskey

When the COVID-19 pandemic hit the United States, Alan Ferber and his family moved from New York to St. Louis, where his wife’s family is from. “I didn’t know that many people,” Ferber says, and so he went about arranging some new music for nonet as a way to get to know other musicians in his new home.

Now back in the New York area, Ferber has taken this music written during this time of change and isolation and recorded it with his long-running nonet, resulting in Up High, Down Low (Sunnyside), a new album coming out next month. Ferber’s nonet returns to the Gallery this week to perform music from the record. We caught up with him last week via zoom to talk about the album’s different strands, from adapted original video game music to covers of Norah Jones and Joni Mitchell.

The Jazz Gallery: I’m interested in how this record comes out of your last nonet record, Roots and Transitions. That one came from a Chamber Music America commission and you conceived it as a suite. Is this one in that vein, or is it more of a mix of different things you’ve put together?

Alan Ferber: In a lot of ways, it’s a pandemic record. I didn’t really have an intention of making another nonet record, but during the height of the pandemic, my family and I were living in St. Louis, where my wife’s family is from. There was no touring or performing, so I had more time to write and try things out. Everything on this record was written or arranged during that stretch of time. There were ideas that I had brewing around in my head for a number of years, and I finally had the time to develop and complete them.

That not only happened during that time, but also in this different place where I didn’t know that many people. I opted to orchestrate these ideas for nonet because I wanted to meet other musicians there. When I first moved to New York, I had a similar thought process. I wanted to meet people without just cold calling them. I wanted to create a project that would include musicians I wanted to play with—that’s the way I wanted to meet people.

TJG: So you’re writing this material in a very new situation with the pandemic and a new city and a lack of touring. Did all of these things together impact how you wrote this material? I know for the last record you talked about writing more from the trombone rather than the piano. Did that process return here?

AF: It was definitely a case-by-case basis with each tune. But I did become more adept with using Logic during that time. Prior to the pandemic, I was writing everything on the trombone or at the piano and writing things out. With the title track of the record, I primarily composed it in logic. It’s more of a loop-based tune that I composed by layering short ideas on top of each other, as opposed to sitting down with a pencil and paper and fleshing out long melodies and forms. I found that working in a DAW was really helpful for getting me to certain musical results that were unique and different from what I would generate with other tools.

The other big difference between my previous nonet records and this one is that the bass clarinet has been replaced by a baritone saxophone. The big reason for that is that while I was writing and orchestrating these songs, I was living near Chris Cheek. He’s such a singularly great player, and was really into playing bari at that time. I had this amazing resource at my fingertips and he was willing to get together and play and read through things. So a big reason for this change was because of Chris and his proximity.

I’ll add one more thing, too. I started writing for different media during the pandemic, including for a video game called Valorant, which became hugely popular. I had never really written for interactive media, and the game producers set a lot of unique parameters. I had to write for these specific situations, and one of the tunes that I came up was adapted to became a track on this record.

TJG: Working with new media and really diving into DAW production and samples feels very resonant to my experience at that time! It was really interesting to see what different musicians did during that time along those lines.

I noticed a few covers among the track list, like the standard “The More I See You,” and the Joni Mitchell tune “Cherokee Louise.” It’s a beautiful, haunting tune and I really associate it with her particular kind of phrasing. Why were you drawn to arranging the song, and did you try to evoke that phrasing in any way, or is it so inimitable, you ran away from it?

AF: Yeah it’s impossible to recreate Joni Mitchell! Obviously I don’t have a vocalist on this project, but originally it came from an arrangement I did for the Brussels Jazz Orchestra several years ago with the vocalist Tutu Puoane. I was really pleased with how it turned out—they played it really well.

I do a lot of arranging for different ensembles and singers, and sometimes I’ll do a tune that I’d like to explore further and include in sets for my own bands. “Cherokee Louise” was certainly one of them for a couple of reasons. One is that I just love the polyrhythmic nature of the original. When I first listened to it, I couldn’t really tell if it was in 2 or 3 with the way it starts. It’s really rhythmically nebulous and cool. And there are some really inspiring players on it, like Vinnie Colaiuta on drums and Wayne Shorter on tenor saxophone. So, between that rhythmic feel and Joni’s delivery, there was a lot to draw from.

In terms of delivery, you’re never going to transfer it completely. But I think the trombone is an incredibly expressive instrument, so I decided to make that arrangement into a feature for me. I wanted to take on the challenge of trying to be lyrical and vocal through the trombone. I like to champion the trombone as an instrument that’s uniquely suited to evoking the human voice, so I chose to frame myself for this arrangement and see what I could do.

TJG: There’s also that later orchestral version she did with Vince Mendoza that’s fascinatingly different. Her performance is so direct and raw, and then the orchestra is so lush—it’s really heartbreaking.

AF: Yeah—you have this whole other color on the song. I think they modulated the key down too, and changing the range impacts color. I love Vince Mendoza, so there are probably some qualities of that version that I borrowed—I’ll have to revisit it and see.

TJG: Working with Chris Cheek on bari sax is also certainly a new color, but I was wondering how you think about writing for musicians that you’ve worked with for a really long time in this band. Do you think about balancing material that you know the players will sound good on versus challenging and stretching the group in new directions?

AF: One thing that was really helpful when writing in isolation is that when you’re not seeing these people, writing for them helps you connect with them. There’s a Norah Jones cover on this that I did as a feature for John Ellis and it helped that I could imagine him sitting and playing right next to me. It was comforting to channel that. There’s definitely a therapeutic quality there.

In many cases I’m writing for these players’ strengths, but there are also instances where I definitely put players in certain contexts that they won’t be as comfortable in. That happened a fair bit on Roots & Transitions. When you do that, I think you can get to the true spirit of improvisation. You’re putting players into situations where they aren’t falling back on what they know, or their prescribed language. Everyone can start actively listening and you can get some unique results.

Sometimes when I’m really busy, I don’t have time to think about each musical idea as deeply. When the world was shut down, I could really sit down and consider the humans I was writing for. I could carefully calculate decisions on how they play, and even how they sound in specific registers. I would agonize in cases between putting things in certain keys. Should it be in E where the highest note is a B, or should it be in F, so that the highest note is a C?  Those two notes, even though they’re only a half step apart, can sound and feel really different.  I would sometimes get lost in those kinds of details.

TJG: The way players slur between notes is also so distinctive, and the same interval can sound triumphant versus strained when you move it just a little higher or lower.

AF: Oh yes. I did an arrangement of “The More I See You” that’s based on Ben Waltzer’s trio version from a great Fresh Sound record a number of years ago. I was really agonizing over the key. The original was in Eb, but It sounded really good for nonet as an ensemble in G, and felt even better in terms of improvising in F. So I somewhat agonized over the ensemble vs improvisation question for my ultimate key choice.

TJG: Or you could a write a transition that brings the solo section down to F!

AF: You could modulate for sure, and it’s something I certainly considered. But I decided to keep the lower key for improvisational reasons, but compensated with orchestrational moves that would brighten up the melody in that lower key.

TJG: In addition to writing for your own bands, you seem to play in just about every big band in New York! I saw you’re on Tony Kadleck’s album, and then you were on the records by Jared Schonig, Jihye Lee, Remy LeBoeuf… Bandleaders from different generations!

How has playing with these groups informed your writing?

AF: It’s everything! For me, those playing experiences inform almost every choice I make in my arranging. I’ve studied scores and listened to records of course, but it’s different when you’re in the trenches. It’s amazing to hear how all of these composers frame this one instrumental template. As a trombone player, I tend to play parts that are inside of the music, like a counter-melodic element. Being in that supportive role gives you a lot of perspective and ideas that you perhaps wouldn’t get if you were just listening to the big picture.

For me, it’s like studying the engine of a car. You’re not looking at the beautiful paint job, or the body. You’re existing in the inner workings that really makes the thing go. As a writer, that gives me so much to work with and so much inspiration to spin off in my own work.

TJG: It’s a kind of music making that’s informed by the community you’re in. People’s work connects to each other’s.

AF: I learn so much from listening to the different ways people speak the language. I have two small kids and I love to see how they learn to talk, through listening and imitating. It feels really resonant to how I work as a writer and player. I’ll listen to classic straight-ahead music, or stuff with more Euro-centric influence, or indie rock, or something with South American influences. Regardless of the style, if I’m listening with a lot intention, I naturally take it all in and filter it through my voice.  This album is just the latest installment of that process.

The Alan Ferber Nonet plays The Jazz Gallery on Wednesday, June 14, and Thursday, June 15, 2023. The group features Mr. Ferber on trombone, Scott Wendholt on trumpet, Jon Gordon on alto saxophone, John Ellis on tenor saxophone, Scott Robinson (June 14) or Carl Maraghi (June 15) on baritone saxophone, Alex Goodman on guitar, David Cook on piano, Matt Clohesy on bass, and Ben Perowsky on drums. Sets are at 7:30 and 9:30 P.M. E.D.T. each night. $30 general admission ($15 for members), $40 reserved cabaret seating ($25 for members), $20 livestream access (Thursday only, $5 for members) for each set. Purchase tickets here.